Discussion:
R.I.P. FreeHand
(too old to reply)
art101
2006-12-13 05:23:51 UTC
Permalink
The depth of my hatred for Adobe tonight is nearly boundless. Like most
longtime FreeHand users, I greeted Adobe's purchase of FreeHand with a sense of
foreboding and dismay. I hoped that Adobe would continue to support and develop
this extraordinary drawing tool. Stupid me. FreeHand ran circles around that
lumpy piece of junk called Illustrator. Always did, always will. Macromedia
knew this when they bought FreeHand from Aldus (Remember them? Aldus pretty
much invented desktop publishing), eons ago, way back in the 1990s. And then
Adobe got so big and powerful that the FTC allowed Adobe to buy FreeHand and
gut Macromedia's dead carcass. Corporate feeding frenzies rule our nasty,
modern world.

FreeHand MX 11.0.x was working well up to or around Mac OSX 10.2.x. I recently
bit the bullet and "upgraded" to OSX 10.4.x (aka "Tiger" -- argh, Apple, ditch
the cat names, OK? Since most of those big cats are on the brink of extinction,
naming your flagship OS after an endangered species is a weird, ironic
marketing choice).

All hell has broken loose since I "upgraded." Simply turning on FreeHand's
"snap to grid" and turning it off again is now impossible. Adobe offers a lame
"TechNotes" workaround that doesn't truly work.

Adobe doesn't care. And why should it? Adobe only wants us all to buy their
version of some fabulous next new thing -- like "CS" (aka "Creative Suite" --
an Orwellian doublethink marketing campaign if ever there was one). Adobe is
nothing more than another money-grubbing corporate nightmare. Customer loyalty
and trustworthy products don't figure in Adobe's bottom line... let alone
respect or commitment to the venerable art of graphic design.

I used to love getting up in the morning. I used to love turning on my Mac and
making art. I thought I was the luckiest man in the world! I could make art and
design and pay my bills! Stupid naive me.

Hours of my life melted away forever this afternoon. I'll never get them back.
I was just trying to make some graphic design for a paying client. For every
five minutes I spend on an idea these days, I spend an hour or so trying to
make software express it. The ratio of art to product is crazy... especially
considering the stupid amount of money Adobe charges for products that never do
what Adobe says they'll do. It's all snake oil and trickery.

I wish I could go back to FreeHand 3.1. It was a brilliant piece of software.
R.I.P. FreeHand. Rest in peace. Shame on Adobe. Shame. I'm tired and sad
tonight, and my deadline is shot to hell. I used to make digital art, but now
I'm just another digital ditch digger. Just another consumer, hooked on this
never-ending heroin spiral of "upgrade" after never-ending "upgrade."

I looked at the very first serious drawing I ever made with a vector drawing
program (FreeHand 2.0) tonight. You can see it
http://www.art101.com/gallery/tdf.htm. From a purely technical point of view,
it's not a bad drawing... and the technology that made it possible is gone
forever. Bought and sold by the jerks who own the code.

OK. I'm done with this rant. Thanks for reading it. I guess I'll go check my
email now... an inbox full of more image-based spam peddling pump 'n dump stock
market scams. I used to love the 'net, almost as much as I used to love drawing
with FreeHand.
Armadillo
2006-12-13 08:15:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by art101
The depth of my hatred for Adobe tonight is nearly boundless. Like most
longtime FreeHand users, I greeted Adobe's purchase of FreeHand with a sense of
foreboding and dismay. I hoped that Adobe would continue to support and develop
this extraordinary drawing tool. Stupid me. FreeHand ran circles around that
It will not make the situation any better but you have to remember that Adobe got buggy old software which development was discontinued already by Macromedia.

Hopefully FreeHand has even registered as organ donor.

Jukka
Judy Arndt
2006-12-13 17:53:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Armadillo
Hopefully FreeHand has even registered as organ donor.
Jukka
Hee hee! Hilarious!

art101,
Keep in mind that if Adobe is going to put it's logo on a FreeHand box, the
product is going to have to live up to Adobe standards. It must not damage
their reputation as the preeminent company in the print universe.

Can you imagine Adobe selling a print production tool that cannot interpret
EPS or PDF files, cannot export press-ready PDF files, cannot reliably use
OpenType fonts?

Whether these features can be grafted on to FH's old code, and whether Adobe
can make any money doing so, is a matter for them to decide. Personally, I
have my doubts.

Judy Arndt
tomosullivan
2006-12-13 18:30:40 UTC
Permalink
as someone whos just getting into the business of preparing stuff for
publication (with Freehand)
its scary to read this:

"Can you imagine Adobe selling a print production tool that cannot interpret
EPS or PDF files, cannot export press-ready PDF files, cannot reliably use
OpenType fonts?"

I know theres another thread about alternatives, but I'll chance asking here
(in response to above quote):

Is illustrator the only programme around that can:
"interpret EPS or PDF files ... export press-ready PDF files ... reliably use
OpenType fonts" ???

tom
(PS having used illustrator briefly I can understand why people nevertheless
stick with FH :smile; )
darrel
2006-12-13 19:52:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by tomosullivan
"interpret EPS or PDF files ... export press-ready PDF files ... reliably use
OpenType fonts" ???
FH doesn't do opentype just because it hasn't been updated in a while.

As for PDF integration, Adobe pretty much owns PDF, so their apps are
specifically suited for that.

OF course, most folks use Acrobat for PDF production anyways. No doubt that
straight-to-PDF built in to Adobe apps is nice, though.

If a company's workflow is ENTIRELY PDF based, then they've likely always
use Adobe products and likely always will.

-Darrel
darrel
2006-12-13 19:51:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Judy Arndt
Can you imagine Adobe selling a print production tool that cannot interpret
EPS or PDF files, cannot export press-ready PDF files, cannot reliably use
OpenType fonts?
They're doing that now.

-Darrel
Judy Arndt
2006-12-13 20:28:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by darrel
Post by Judy Arndt
Can you imagine Adobe selling a print production tool that cannot interpret
EPS or PDF files, cannot export press-ready PDF files, cannot reliably use
OpenType fonts?
They're doing that now.
True, but it's still Macromedia branded.

http://www.adobe.com/products/freehand/

Judy Arndt
tlink
2007-01-16 18:53:24 UTC
Permalink
:mad; Dear Jukka;

My sentiments exactly. I was on the phone yesterday for a full hour with what
was supposed to be Adobe Tech Support trying to get a simple answer to a simple
question: "Does FHMX not support Open Type fonts, or is it me?" Each time I
called the Tech Support number, the phone was answered by a clueless Customer
Service agent. It took several minutes to determine this. When the Customer
Service agent transferred my call to Tech Support, it was once again answered
by a clueless Customer support agent. Eventually an hour of my time (and cell
phone minutes) was consumed and the last idiot to field my call said, "This
sounds like a question for Tech Support". Well, dammit, transfer me then, says
I. "Can't" says the person on the line, "it's after five pm. and they've gone
home for the day". (Mind you I called at 4:00 p.m.) Finally, in exasperation
I asked for the name and contact information for the President of Adobe.
"Don't know", was this Adobe employee's response. "Find out", says I. Finally
I got it. His name is Murray Demo. Customer support didn't know his address,
but did provide the phone number: (408) 536-5401. I think every graphic
designer in America who has been sabotaged by this fascistic nightmare should
phone Murray Demo and let him know what we think of his pathetic company.

Tom
Rich Hudgins
2007-01-16 19:13:34 UTC
Permalink
Murray is their CFO, not who you probably want:

Murray Demo

Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer

As executive vice president and chief financial officer of Adobe, Murray
Demo has worldwide responsibility for Adobe's finance, investor
relations, information services, purchasing, facilities, global supply
chain management and order management organizations.

from:
http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/executivebios/murraydemo.html

Rich
Post by tlink
:mad; Dear Jukka;
My sentiments exactly. I was on the phone yesterday for a full hour with what
was supposed to be Adobe Tech Support trying to get a simple answer to a simple
question: "Does FHMX not support Open Type fonts, or is it me?" Each time I
called the Tech Support number, the phone was answered by a clueless Customer
Service agent. It took several minutes to determine this. When the Customer
Service agent transferred my call to Tech Support, it was once again answered
by a clueless Customer support agent. Eventually an hour of my time (and cell
phone minutes) was consumed and the last idiot to field my call said, "This
sounds like a question for Tech Support". Well, dammit, transfer me then, says
I. "Can't" says the person on the line, "it's after five pm. and they've gone
home for the day". (Mind you I called at 4:00 p.m.) Finally, in exasperation
I asked for the name and contact information for the President of Adobe.
"Don't know", was this Adobe employee's response. "Find out", says I. Finally
I got it. His name is Murray Demo. Customer support didn't know his address,
but did provide the phone number: (408) 536-5401. I think every graphic
designer in America who has been sabotaged by this fascistic nightmare should
phone Murray Demo and let him know what we think of his pathetic company.
Tom
Wes Rand
2007-01-16 19:25:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by tlink
Murray Demo
Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer
Great name for someone in the software field!
Rich Hudgins
2007-01-16 20:42:31 UTC
Permalink
I know. I thought that the customer service rep gave them a fake name
and was having a good laugh after they hung up. I was surprised to
actually find him at all.

Rich
Post by Wes Rand
Post by tlink
Murray Demo
Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer
Great name for someone in the software field!
tlink
2007-01-16 19:05:24 UTC
Permalink
:mad; Dear Jukka;

My sentiments exactly. I was on the phone yesterday for a full hour with what
was supposed to be Adobe Tech Support trying to get a simple answer to a simple
question: "Does FHMX not support Open Type fonts, or is it me?" Each time I
called the Tech Support number, the phone was answered by a clueless Customer
Service agent. It took several minutes to determine this. When the Customer
Service agent transferred my call to Tech Support, it was once again answered
by a clueless Customer support agent. Eventually an hour of my time (and cell
phone minutes) was consumed and the last idiot to field my call said, "This
sounds like a question for Tech Support". Well, dammit, transfer me then, says
I. "Can't" says the person on the line, "it's after five pm. and they've gone
home for the day". (Mind you I called at 4:00 p.m.) Finally, in exasperation
I asked for the name and contact information for the President of Adobe.
"Don't know", was this Adobe employee's response. "Find out", says I. Finally
I got it. His name is Murray Demo. Customer support didn't know his address,
but did provide the phone number: (408) 536-5401. I think every graphic
designer in America who has been sabotaged by this fascistic nightmare should
phone Murray Demo and let him know what we think of his pathetic company.

Tom
Bembelembe
2006-12-13 09:20:01 UTC
Permalink
Maybe it is buggy but it works for me like a charm!
I have my copy of FH and the unfortunate dead leftover Adobe can stick it somewhere "else"! Hope they are happy loosing so many users.
Martin S.
2006-12-13 09:15:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by art101
I guess I'll go check my
email now... an inbox full of more image-based spam peddling pump 'n dump stock
market scams. I used to love the 'net, almost as much as I used to love drawing
with FreeHand.
Sorry, I can't do anything about FH's fate, but regarding the image
based spam I've found the filters suggested here to be very effective:

<http://www.hawkwings.net/2006/11/27/image-spam-powered-by-russian-bot-ne
t>
<http://www.hawkwings.net/2006/08/01/mailapp-rule-fix-for-image-spam/>
<http://www.davids-world.com/archives/2006/11/the_spam_avalan.html>

Almost none of the junk makes it to my inbox anymore.
--
Cheers Martin
art101
2006-12-13 11:24:26 UTC
Permalink
Thanks, Jukka/Armadillo. The organ donor comment helped me grin out loud for
the first time in weeks. Good metaphor.

Hey Martin S.: Thanks for the spam filter tips. I'll explore them and add the
ones that work to my arsenal.

And blessings to you, Bembelembe. Your home page makes me happy to be alive.
I've bookmarked your site for further exploration. I don't think Adobe gives a
flying fart about the users it's loosing. After all, there's a new sucker born
every nanosecond. Adobe clearly only cares about how much more new junk it can
sell... how many suckers it can hook on the upgrade ride. Adobe pretends to
love design and art and purpose... but in the end, Adobe just wants to sell
more stuff to digital ditch diggers like you and me. R.I.P. FreeHand. Here's a
tune from my archives you might like. Don't tell a soul... it'll be our little
secret. http://www.art101.com/101temp/am/bonnie_brae.mp3
davecc
2006-12-13 11:48:52 UTC
Permalink
art101,

Good post. Adobe is not to blame for the state Freehand is in as the blame
should be directed at the bastards of Macromedia for neglecting and letting it
rot.

I recently purchased a new Intel MacPro 2.66 and was very happy with the
performance of both Freehand 10 and MX, so at least I can keep using my
favourite vector application indefinitely.

David
darrel
2006-12-13 14:43:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by davecc
Good post. Adobe is not to blame for the state Freehand is in as the blame
should be directed at the bastards of Macromedia for neglecting and letting it
rot.
Eh. I blame 'em both.

-Darrel
davecc
2006-12-13 15:26:12 UTC
Permalink
Why would you blame Adobe?
darrel
2006-12-13 16:51:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by davecc
Why would you blame Adobe?
They own it now.

Not to mention that they don't have a stellar track record either.

-Darrel
Navale
2006-12-13 16:35:35 UTC
Permalink
[q][i]Originally posted by: [b][b]art101[/b][/b][/i]
. I guess I'll go check my email now... an inbox full of more image-based spam
peddling pump 'n dump stock market scams.[/q]

Funny you should mention it, these mails started to come soon after I
registered with a certain mail-address on this site... just a coincidense of
course.

What is annoying though is that Adobe still delivers MX at full price without
making any effort of dealing with all of the bugs, something that is impossible
with any other consumer product than software...
darrel
2006-12-13 16:53:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Navale
What is annoying though is that Adobe still delivers MX at full price without
making any effort of dealing with all of the bugs, something that is impossible
with any other consumer product than software...
Yes!

And for that, I have to blame consumers as much as software companies.

It's amazing that people tolerate and even almost expect software they
purchase to be broken. And they're more than willing to pay for 'upgrades'
to fix things that were wrong with the product the first time you bought it.

It's like buying a car and only having it come with 3 wheels and Ford saying
'yea, we'll fix that with the next $1000 upgrade for you'.

People would laugh at that example, but see nothing wrong with accepting all
the bugs in the commercial software they have on their computer.

-Darrel
d.m.gold
2006-12-13 17:35:50 UTC
Permalink
I COMPLETELY BLAME ADOBE!. who owns FH now? whats happening to it now? NOTHING.
What were those articles earlier in the year? " we have many different
customers and we will consider all there needs blah blah blah" " Freehand has a
huge and loyal following"
You have to ask why did Adobe purchase MM.... because of Flash and other web
softwares. Why did MM abandon FH? because of WEB softwares. Where do Adobe's
interests lie then? in Flash and Web softwares. Print media is old news to
them. Illustrator is OLD too, I would not be surprised if Illustrator becomes
old news and is abandoned too. I know many people will disagree with me, but
there is no competition anymore, so why make it any better. I truly believe
Illustrator will not get much better than its next upgrade.
And I'm tired of people saying FH is old! FH is amazing, MX came out in 2003
and I still use it for everything with EASE!!!!. nothing beats FH. NOTHING. I
will use it till it won't budge, and then hopefully get out of this biz.
dg
DJRichCT
2006-12-13 19:22:01 UTC
Permalink
I sometimes wonder if Macromedia had a hunch they would merge and decided not
to develop FreeHand further as top not complicate the merger. If FreeHand had a
release with Studi 8, the FTC would have thought FreeHand is an active program,
by Macromedia choosing to not update it, the FTC saw FreeHand as not being
developed. So it's tough to say who is really responsible for Freehand's demise.

I ask again, does anyone know if Canvas is a viable option for us FreeHand
users that do not want to use Illustrator?
darrel
2006-12-13 19:50:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by DJRichCT
I sometimes wonder if Macromedia had a hunch they would merge and decided not
to develop FreeHand further as top not complicate the merger.
It's purely a guess, but MM hadn't been performing great in years. It
appears they jetisoned a lot of software products to focus solely on their
web apps...the one area where they were leading the market.
Post by DJRichCT
I ask again, does anyone know if Canvas is a viable option for us FreeHand
users that do not want to use Illustrator?
It loks like they have a free trial:

http://www.acdamerica.com/support-canvas/canvas-software-downloads/canvas-downloads-canvas-x.html?CMP=ILC-MainAdTile-English&CRA=FreeTrial

-Darrel
Bembelembe
2006-12-14 08:28:33 UTC
Permalink
DJ,
Canvas is not good option for Freehand migrators. I tried it once and I close
it very soon. Somebody has put a link to Trial version so you can take your
shot.

But I must say I'm glad to see Judy around here again :)
tomosullivan
2006-12-14 08:36:42 UTC
Permalink
[q][i]Originally posted by: [b][b]DJRichCT[/b][/b][/i]
I ask again, does anyone know if Canvas is a viable option for us FreeHand
users that do not want to use Illustrator?[/q]

dunno,
but if you have a look at their forum over there,they're complaining about
nothing happening/software dying/ACD going bankrupt etc.
the software might be good but its future doesnt sound too promising at the
moment
.????? ???????
2006-12-14 09:23:29 UTC
Permalink
I don't understand you. There is nothing the best than FH or Illustrator! Why
you are so bet (sorry for this word, but it seems to be so)! You are trying
some software that isn't even close to FH or Illy, and what do you expect?

Yes, maybe you hate Adobe for their Nothing-Doing-For-Freehand, but is Adobe
able to correct Macromedia's error they did (I mean that it's Macromedia
abandoned FH, not Adobe).

Yes, maybe you think Illy is ununtuitive and doesn't some things you can with
FH (you repeat often Multipage, Paste Inside, Find & Replace, and that's all
you can say? Nothing more to be better than Illy?) Just look, reality is closer
--- Adobe won't develope FH for further releases (but even me, I hope they'll
update FH at least).

I say you won't find nothing to replace FH or Illy. There's nothing better
Navale
2006-12-13 20:27:39 UTC
Permalink
About exporting PDF, I have used FH7 export for years and only a couple of
times got bad prints. With MX the import and editing of PDF works as well. Most
EPS import and export has also worked for my needs...
doentz
2006-12-13 21:18:34 UTC
Permalink
Freehand was already discontinued by Macromedia because of the further deal
(this kind of things doesnt happen from night to day).
Freehand and Fontographer are two beautiful pieces of software, it's a pity
their fates are complete the opposite.
Fontlab guys bought Fontographer and instead of eliminate other software they
keep developing it, fantastic for the users, for them.
I personally think if Adobe doesn't plan to keep developing Freehand they
should OpenSource it, in respect to the users and the developers that worked
all those years on this tool
darrel
2006-12-13 22:48:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by doentz
in respect to
The software industry is about money, not respect. ;o)

-Darrel
Deaf Web Designer
2006-12-20 01:47:46 UTC
Permalink
doentz,

Perhaps that you write an email, or painfully slow as snail letter to Adobe
engineers to Opensource FH support through feedback.

[q][i]Originally posted by: [b][b]doentz[/b][/b][/i]
Freehand was already discontinued by Macromedia because of the further deal
(this kind of things doesnt happen from night to day).
Freehand and Fontographer are two beautiful pieces of software, it's a pity
their fates are complete the opposite.
Fontlab guys bought Fontographer and instead of eliminate other software they
keep developing it, fantastic for the users, for them.
I personally think if Adobe doesn't plan to keep developing Freehand they
should OpenSource it, in respect to the users and the developers that worked
all those years on this tool[/q]
doentz
2006-12-14 01:38:27 UTC
Permalink
sure. money they have already. time to start thinking wider
I hope you are not an Adobe worker ;)
Bembelembe
2006-12-14 09:42:07 UTC
Permalink
What's wrong with some of you people? You all defending Adobe because it
inherited half-dead FH from Macromedia. But as d.m.gold said - who owns FH
now?! Adobe! So all blame is on Adobe now! I'm sure that someone will came up
with blaming even futher than Macromedia and condemning Aldus for some old
code! If this old code is so bad - why do we so much love Freehand and still
using it? Go to Illustrator, Xara, Corel, Inkscape, Canvas etc and ditch
Freehand right now!
Adobe owns it, and it's reasonable to expect that Adobe will deliver a new
version.
.????? ???????
2006-12-14 10:15:51 UTC
Permalink
Why must Adobe be able for FH?! It's the same thing if you buy a dammaged ancient car and people are saying that it's you dammaged it. So, please, tell me are they right?
Bembelembe
2006-12-14 14:10:46 UTC
Permalink
That's not good example, sorry.
In a way, my answer to you can be interpreted through Judy's observation: "Can
you imagine Adobe selling a print production tool that cannot interpret EPS or
PDF files, cannot export press-ready PDF files, cannot reliably use OpenType
fonts?"
I expect from Adobe to fix it, otherwise stop selling it to loyal customers.
d.m.gold
2006-12-14 15:07:43 UTC
Permalink
I couldn't agree more with Bembelembe, Freehand is not an ancient car and it
wasn't damaged by MM. Maybe it wasn't their primary focus, but MM didn't lay
the team off, Adobe did!!!. And Illustrator is the same Antique, and might in
the long run NOT be ADOBE's primary focus, cuz like I said before the future in
their minds is Web. Hence why they purchased MM to begin with. It wouldn't be
so hard for them to fix a few FH bugs, put Pdf up to date and repackage the
fricken software.
I would buy it in a flash....
dg
curtcarto
2006-12-14 16:18:44 UTC
Permalink
[q][i]Originally posted by: [b][b]d.m.gold[/b][/b][/i]
..Freehand is not an ancient car and it wasn't damaged by MM. Maybe it wasn't
their primary focus, but MM didn't lay the team off, Adobe did!!!. ....
dg
[/q]

Sorry dg, but MM did, in fact, lay of the FH developers, [b]not[/b] Adobe. And
FH code is [b]old[/b] [b]old[/b] [b]old[/b].

The only way anyone should be blaming Adobe for FH's current state is because
Adobe marketing their AI well enough to put a financial hurt on FHs sales.
Thereby, forcing MM to make a financial/business decision to let that old code
stay the way it is.

People, Adobe bought MM what, just last year? Do any of you understand the
development/release cycle of a software product? There is no way to rewrite the
entirety of FH's code in that short period of time, even if Adobe wanted to!
It's not going to be released in an Universal format for the same reason--it's
old code that is not as easily reprocessed like a newer carbon app would. And
don't expect miracles this spring with CS3. Again think the full life cycle of
a release...CS3 was in the works [b]long[/b] before Adobe even bought MM.

Stop complaining about Adobe not doing anything with FH! It will take
[b]time[/b] but your/my much-loved features of FH will make into the next Adobe
vector app (albeit post-CS3) [b]ONLY[/b] if you send constructive feedback now.

And before anyone points a finger at me for being some Adobe troll or worse, a
fanboy, let me just say I [b]hate[/b] AI. It's slow and bloated. BUT, gosh it
can make a nice press-ready PDF. So I want to keep using FH-esque tools and
workflows, so I have passed on my wishlist...

Have you?

Cheers,
.curt
d.m.gold
2006-12-14 16:54:31 UTC
Permalink
Curt, it was due to the merger that they were laid off. so I would think Adobe
didn't need these people in their new merged company.
see John Nosal weblog statement below
December 07, 2005

Goodbye...

Hello everyone,

I would like to start out by saying sorry that I did not do more with this
blog and the Fireworks PodCast. It was truly amazing how much time was required
to post and record a PodCast.

As many of you know by now the acquisition of Macromedia by Adobe Systems
completed on December 3rd. Due to the acquisition and the subsequent
restructuring, I have found myself now unemployed.

It was an amazing 11 year ride with Macromedia and will be missed greatly.

Warmest Regards,
John J Nosal
***@nosalcentral.com
curtcarto
2006-12-14 20:45:31 UTC
Permalink
[q][i]Originally posted by: [b][b]d.m.gold[/b][/b][/i]
Curt, it was due to the merger that they were laid off. so I would think Adobe
didn't need these people in their new merged company.
see John Nosal weblog statement below
December 07, 2005
--------------

It depends on how you define "they." John's note doesn't refer to anyone else
but himself.

Perhaps the whole FH programming team wasn't laid off, but they certainly
weren't working on FH.

I also remember a post by someone in the Dallas area that saw the MM office
remove its sign well before the Adobe buyout. This was around the FH10
ugliness. And about the time John was most active and obviously fighting for
FH, but never too optimistic. My guess is that he (alone) was kept on before
the buyout, then after the purchase, some beancounter in Adobe made more cuts.
Probably because the Suits bought MM without much consideration of FH, and then
when it was theirs, they finally got around to considering its fate. At that
point, it was a C/B analysis.

So again, CS3's planning probably was started before CS2's release. Then
worked on well before MM's purchase. Now that CS3 is about to be released, it
will be time to think strategically about what Adobe can do with it's vector
apps aka. CS4. Look at the timeline from CS to CS2 to CS3; expect the same
timeframe for CS3 to CS4. That makes it about 2009 before you see FH's
influence on any meaningful level.

But it ain't gonna happen unless we as a community make an effort to be
realistic in our feedback.
darrel
2006-12-14 16:41:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by d.m.gold
Maybe it wasn't their primary focus, but MM didn't lay
the team off, Adobe did!!!.
MM had been shrinking that team for some time.
Post by d.m.gold
It wouldn't be
so hard for them to fix a few FH bugs, put Pdf up to date and repackage the
fricken software.
But what's in it for them? Probably not much.

_Darrel
DJRichCT
2006-12-14 19:45:16 UTC
Permalink
I don't understand how people think that Adobe is totally blameless regarding
FreeHand. We will never know the goings on within Macromedia and Adobe before
the merger was proposed. Maybe Macromedia could have haulted development
because they knew Adobe would have problems with the merger (FTC) if they
continued working on FreeHand. It's something we'll never fully understand, but
I kind of doubt that it was all Macromedia's doing.
Bembelembe
2006-12-14 20:55:43 UTC
Permalink
Frankly, from the current status... it doesn't matter who is guilty because we, the end users, lost. We lost all those years living with it, storing hundreds and thousands of files.
doentz
2006-12-15 00:58:57 UTC
Permalink
Macromedia not discontinued FH. The merge was happening for more time than you
think, because of that they stopped to make effort in evoluting a "to be dead"
software
Freehand has refused by Adobe so many years ago. people at Aldus wanted more
than anyone keep FH alive.
darrel
2006-12-15 14:34:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by doentz
Macromedia not discontinued FH.
Technically, no. In reality? It's been 'discontinued' since version 9. FH 10
and 11 were jokes...not real applications. ;o)

-Darrel
Wes Rand
2006-12-15 17:05:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by darrel
Post by doentz
Macromedia not discontinued FH.
Technically, no. In reality? It's been 'discontinued' since version 9. FH 10
and 11 were jokes...not real applications. ;o)
-Darrel
Even 9 didn't really advance the program. Version 7 was the best I
think. But I wouldn't consider MX a joke ... well, maybe raster effects.
Practical joke by Macromedia engineers? The one good thing with MX is
that you can work in a program close to what version 9 was in Mac OS X
rather than have to move to Illustrator.
art101
2006-12-15 05:05:27 UTC
Permalink
Greetings and thanks to everyone who's posted to this thread. Interesting
insights and opinions here. Special thanks to those of you who sent private
messages of condolence and support via my site. I took a few days off and I'm
feeling a little better.

I stopped in here off and on and decided to wade in again with what will
probably be another longwinded epic-style post. I tend toward verbosity,
especially with a subject like this. In addition to raising my blood pressure a
notch or two, the subject of FreeHand's demise sparks some passion in me. This
will be a long post because I want to attempt clarity. Clarity sometimes takes
time.

Navale's post regarding the fact that Adobe charges full price for a broken
FreeHand is spot on, as is darrel's car metaphor. If GM sold a car, and the
engine exploded when a buyer first turned the key, well, that would be the lead
story on the evening news. Congress would launch an investigation. I think
there's a federal law somewhere that requires carmakers to make parts available
for 10 years after a car is released to the public. I could be wrong, but I
think that's true. Anyway, there's no parallel in the software world... no
protection for consumers. It's buyer beware and blame the consumer if things
don't work as advertised. While the speed of software development makes a ten
year 'parts' guarantee impractical, I don't think some sort of mandated
guarantee of maybe 3 years is unreasonable.

I appreciate Judy Arndt's post. "Keep in mind that if Adobe is going to put
it's logo on a FreeHand box, the product is going to have to live up to Adobe
standards." Well said, Judy. As for the EPS, PDF, OpenType, and "old code"
issues, well, I could discuss that at greater length later. The short version
is that there are workarounds which worked prior to Mac OSX 10.4. Adobe's
FreeHand product page states that FreeHand is compatible with Mac OSX 10.4. I
took that statement to be true, without following the "emerging issues" link.
Stupid me. I took Adobe at it's word without reading the fine money grubbing
print.

Adobe has a major PR problem with FreeHand and chooses to blow it off.
Frankly, this astonishes me. Maybe Adobe thinks we'll just fade away. Maybe
Adobe is correct in that assumption. For better or worse, Adobe now owns
FreeHand. FreeHand is a spectacular vector drawing tool (and I still contend
that it runs circles around Illustrator -- old code and all -- don't even get
me started about Illustrator's lumpy old legacy code). There's a market for
FreeHand and no more competition (thank you FTC; nice to know you're watching
out for consumers -- not).

I know no figures on the number of people who use (and maybe even love)
FreeHand, but I suspect it's easily in the hundreds of thousands... maybe even
millions. Why would Adobe abandon a product it now owns and shun a substantial
market? Maybe it's just corporate spite? The trouble is, we just don't know.
Adobe is silent. There's a major communication break between Adobe and FreeHand
users. I want somebody at Adobe to tell us the truth... either Adobe will
support and develop FreeHand or ignore and therefore kill it. I want to read a
letter on Adobe's FreeHand web page from somebody in a position to tell me what
the hell is going on with a product in which I've invested thousands of dollars
and thousands of files... a product I still want to buy.

Quick note to doentz here: Yeah, I loved Fontographer too. Call me paranoid if
you like, but I sometimes think Fontographer was way too brilliant to be
allowed to exist in a market-driven world where Adobe owns just about every
font and there's no room for people to freely make and distribute their own
creations. From Adobe's point of view, such freedom is way too dangerous.
Capitalism run amok.

Curtcarto's post was interesting. Yes, software development always takes time.
I know this; I've seen it first hand... and maybe that's what's going on with
Adobe FreeHand. The point is, we don't know! All indications from Adobe don't
look good. Adobe is silent. Adobe still charges full price for a broken
FreeHand, but doesn't list it in its main Products page (you have to dig to the
"view all products" link). If an updated version of FreeHand will indeed join
Adobe's product line - with full support and commitment - you'd never know it
by cruising through Adobe's corporate site. R.I.P. FreeHand.

Argh. I'm gonna stop typing pretty soon. I'm tired and sad. Before I go, I
want to post a little more background about my life with FreeHand. Maybe this
will help readers understand why I'm so passionate about FreeHand.

I became aware of FreeHand way back around 1986 - shortly after Aldus
PageMaker launched a revolutionary concept called "desktop publishing." Prior
to that, I made art the old fashioned way... you know, I threw paint at a
canvas or scribbled stuff on real live paper with pen and ink and oil pastels.
I beta-tested FHv.7 for some of the guys who wrote the original FreeHand code.
I bought FreeHand v1.0 and later used v2.0 at a design firm that employed me to
make illustrations for their clients.

With FreeHand v3.1, Aldus nailed the interface and features. It was a stunning
and elegant piece of work. It made Illustrator look like the junky copycat it
is to this very day. If Adobe offered a Mac OSX compatible version of FreeHand
3.1, I'd buy it in two seconds flat. Adobe could market it as "FreeHand Lite" -
heh.

And then things started getting ugly and convoluted. Illustrator was emerging
as a serious competitor in the vector art world, while Aldus was loosing track
of everything that made it great. Too many cooks in the kitchen... it happens
all the time. The dot com bubble started to pop and nobody gave a flying fart
about art and vision or related nonsense. It was all about money.

I beta-tested FreeHand 4.0 (which was code named "Roadrunner" at the time). It
was a wreck... a screaming, flaming car crash. It pulled the rug out from under
every user who had invested time and money and trust in FreeHand. I told the
development team that if it was released as written, loyal customers would
scream bloody murder, jump ship and buy Illustrator. I said, "If your intention
is to kill FreeHand, release this version immediately."

By this time, Aldus was dead. Macromedia owned Freehand and released it as
FreeHand 5.0. Loyal FreeHand customers screamed bloody murder, jumped ship and
bought Illustrator. FreeHand's market share (not to mention its art and vision)
was a sad memory.

Macromedia dorked around with FreeHand for a decade or so. Version 5 was
pretty dismal, but almost useable. By version 7, it was almost OK. By versions
9 and 10, it was almost interesting. Through all these versions, Macromedia
didn't fix the stuff that didn't work in previous versions... they just tacked
on new "features" nobody wanted and nobody used. Illustrator followed the same
development path, but by this time it was too late for FreeHand. Illustrator
ruled.

A buddy of mine just sent me an email. His message punched through... one of
two legitimate emails and 56 spams. He said:

"Maybe its time to start associating Adobe with Microsoft in software's "Evil
Overlord" category."

Argh. Welcome to the future. Adobe launches a new marketing tool called "Adobe
Youth Voices" on its home page. Socially conscious work that can only be
expressed by kids who buy Adobe products. It's all so sick.
darrel
2006-12-15 14:38:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by art101
"Maybe its time to start associating Adobe with Microsoft in software's "Evil
Overlord" category."
It's been that way for quite some time. ;o)

The bigger a software company gets and the bigger its market share gets, the
less it has to worry about quality product and customer satisfaction.

-Darrel
Bembelembe
2006-12-15 10:01:28 UTC
Permalink
Art101,
it is emotional to read your Freehand history. I sympatise with all you people
that started with Freehand so long ago.
I started slowly with Freehand 5.5 (wich I didn't like at the time) but
versions 8 and 9 switched me completely. Believe it or not, I'm most statisfied
with MX version.
Although I'm not optimistic any more, I still hope that Evil Overlord will do
something concrete with Freehand.
Thanx for Bonnie Brae! I like it!
DJRichCT
2006-12-15 11:28:29 UTC
Permalink
Art101,

It's emotional for me to read your post as well. I have been using FH since
version 2. I don't want to switch to another vector program as FreEHand does
everything I want.

Maybe Adobe will listen to us FreeHand users after CS3 is released. They will
have time to concentrate on other things. I don't recall any other program that
consumers have fought for so hard as they have done with FreeHand. I didn't see
GoLive customers fighting as much for their program. Fireworks customers
demanded their program continue and they were heard. How can Adobe not hear all
the FreeHand users voicing their concerns? There must be some reason why they
didn't just come out with "FreeHand is not being developed".
JETLT
2006-12-16 13:33:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by DJRichCT
I ask again, does anyone know if Canvas is a viable option for us FreeHand
users that do not want to use Illustrator?

Why don't you download a trial and decide for yourself?

Personally, I like Canvas.

JET
Deaf Web Designer
2006-12-20 01:48:57 UTC
Permalink
art101, it is all rants and full of jokes, really. Quit whining. It doesn't do
any good.

[q][i]Originally posted by: [b][b]art101[/b][/b][/i]
The depth of my hatred for Adobe tonight is nearly boundless. Like most
longtime FreeHand users, I greeted Adobe's purchase of FreeHand with a sense of
foreboding and dismay. I hoped that Adobe would continue to support and develop
this extraordinary drawing tool. Stupid me. FreeHand ran circles around that
lumpy piece of junk called Illustrator. Always did, always will. Macromedia
knew this when they bought FreeHand from Aldus (Remember them? Aldus pretty
much invented desktop publishing), eons ago, way back in the 1990s. And then
Adobe got so big and powerful that the FTC allowed Adobe to buy FreeHand and
gut Macromedia's dead carcass. Corporate feeding frenzies rule our nasty,
modern world.

FreeHand MX 11.0.x was working well up to or around Mac OSX 10.2.x. I recently
bit the bullet and "upgraded" to OSX 10.4.x (aka "Tiger" -- argh, Apple, ditch
the cat names, OK? Since most of those big cats are on the brink of extinction,
naming your flagship OS after an endangered species is a weird, ironic
marketing choice).

All hell has broken loose since I "upgraded." Simply turning on FreeHand's
"snap to grid" and turning it off again is now impossible. Adobe offers a lame
"TechNotes" workaround that doesn't truly work.

Adobe doesn't care. And why should it? Adobe only wants us all to buy their
version of some fabulous next new thing -- like "CS" (aka "Creative Suite" --
an Orwellian doublethink marketing campaign if ever there was one). Adobe is
nothing more than another money-grubbing corporate nightmare. Customer loyalty
and trustworthy products don't figure in Adobe's bottom line... let alone
respect or commitment to the venerable art of graphic design.

I used to love getting up in the morning. I used to love turning on my Mac and
making art. I thought I was the luckiest man in the world! I could make art and
design and pay my bills! Stupid naive me.

Hours of my life melted away forever this afternoon. I'll never get them back.
I was just trying to make some graphic design for a paying client. For every
five minutes I spend on an idea these days, I spend an hour or so trying to
make software express it. The ratio of art to product is crazy... especially
considering the stupid amount of money Adobe charges for products that never do
what Adobe says they'll do. It's all snake oil and trickery.

I wish I could go back to FreeHand 3.1. It was a brilliant piece of software.
R.I.P. FreeHand. Rest in peace. Shame on Adobe. Shame. I'm tired and sad
tonight, and my deadline is shot to hell. I used to make digital art, but now
I'm just another digital ditch digger. Just another consumer, hooked on this
never-ending heroin spiral of "upgrade" after never-ending "upgrade."

I looked at the very first serious drawing I ever made with a vector drawing
program (FreeHand 2.0) tonight. You can see it
http://www.art101.com/gallery/tdf.htm. From a purely technical point of view,
it's not a bad drawing... and the technology that made it possible is gone
forever. Bought and sold by the jerks who own the code.

OK. I'm done with this rant. Thanks for reading it. I guess I'll go check my
email now... an inbox full of more image-based spam peddling pump 'n dump stock
market scams. I used to love the 'net, almost as much as I used to love drawing
with FreeHand.
[/q]
art101
2006-12-20 04:40:21 UTC
Permalink
Thanks, Deaf Web Designer. Your post reveals so much... more than you can
possibly know. Using this forum's lumpy, stupid, convoluted interface to replay
my original post by pasting it into your reply is a stroke of pure genius. You
clearly have a brain in your head.

I'm almost speechless. Thanks again for your contribution to this thread.
You've helped so much. Your insights will surely help Adobe understand that
killing FreeHand helps Adobe kill any trust in the pure free future of digital
vector art.

Adobe now owns FreeHand and Adobe has the FTC kiss of death to kill kill kill
it. Nobody can create or distribute commercial digital art unless some dickwad
corporation like Adobe gets a cut. You wanna make digital vector art? You gotta
buy Illustrator from Adobe. Welcome to the future. All hail Adobe.
d.m.gold
2006-12-20 14:05:18 UTC
Permalink
I must agree with you art101, Monopolies are evil. I don't think Illustrator
has much of a future either anymore. And all those so-called artists all using
the same software like a bunch of brainless drones, are not artists, they're
just computer operators. After I'm thru with this industry, I'll revert to
paintbrush and canvas, and leave the plus/ minus pentool, the layer-locking and
the masking to those Illy users, for they love things that are complicated for
no apparent reason.
dg
Deaf Web Designer
2006-12-20 14:50:15 UTC
Permalink
Hi art101,

Some of the issues may be relatively off topic and other aspect of issue will
be relating one way or another, because art101 wrote lot of issues on all angle
about formerly Macromedia and Adobe Systems product and such issues mentioned
by art101.

First of all, I, honestly, feel your pain and understand what you have gone
through with trouble you experienced with FreeHand. I think you need to set
your personal aside and focus on professional approach as I sense that you do
so well in digital vector art as you put it.

As for felt your pain with some aspect of merger or consolidation of Adobe and
Marcomedia, as you are, I was concerned about merger of Adobe and Macromedia at
the time when the executives announced the merger. I was overly concerned about
this for some reason. Sometimes merger or consolidation serves very good or for
a specific reason. On other hand, sometimes things fall through, or greedy
executives out to please stockholders of these companies they own stocks.
Sometimes I don't buy their reasons or implications to please stockholders.

On other hand, I happen to be valuable customer of formerly Macromedia and
Adobe Systems for years. Both develop and support wonderful, great products. As
you probably already know that Adobe System and formerly Macromedia had a long
history of suing each other over UI patent and other important issues. Not only
that, but as digital arts (including graphic, web and print, as well as your
profession in digital vector arts) evolve as time go.

I am sorry to recognize that you, art101, had gone through a difficult time
dealing with FreeHand, considering or concerning a couple of issues that you
and other forum participants have discussed about those issue already. Some of
it are way off base and not valid, but some are correct, though. However, I
believe that formerly Macromedia, prior to merger of Adobe and Macromedia,
recognized that FreeHand was a weak product, and reallocated their resource or
tool to focus more on Flash and Dreamweaver software development and
engineering that what contributed to the reason Adobe eventually acquired
Macromedia.

Prior to the merger of Adobe and Macromedia, I have use Photoshop for years.
So is with PageMill (and SiteMill) years ago at Adobe System. At the time when
Adobe acquired GoLive from a small, innovative German-based software company (I
believe that Adobe acquired the entire company, I could be wrong, it has been
some years since that happened). So, Adobe replaced PageMill/SiteMill with
GoLive, and consolidating some of PageMill/SiteMill technologies into GoLive.
That was when I encountered some issues and was concerned about GoLive. To that
end, I was not totally satsified with the implemention of acqustion of GoLive
and that effected PageMill/SiteMill. But I went ahead and shallow my pride and
learn to work with GoLive for a while. Somehow Macromedia developed Dreamweaver
around the same time as Adobe acquired GoLive from that German-based company.

That is to say, I happened to notice that Dreamweaver quickly caught lot of
attention of other web designers like myself. Somehow, Dreamweaver gained and
built, as well as won over many designers to buy and use Dreamweaver. Of
course, it was some challenge for me to get used to Macromedia UI interactive
as opposed to Adobe UI interactive.

I am not going to discuss about Dreamweaver or GoLive or all that relating to
web design in depth. But some of issues relating to your or my experience
dealing with the merger of Adobe and Macromedia and what might will affect the
products or services. It is early to say that right now, really. But I really
believe and think that Adobe did the right thing about long-term approach to
develop and make many great products as to "betterment" of all products
gradually as time go.

I'd prefer that Adobe acquire Macromedia, rather than Microsoft Corporation
acquire Macromedia -- had if Microsoft Corporation acquired Macromedia, I can
guaratee you, art101, that M$ have a long history of messing things around with
many wonderful, innovative products or software developed by other small, tiny
software companies. Just because Microsoft felt threatened by the innovations.

Adobe is opposite of Microsoft in its entirety. For example, if you look at
history and experience with Windows users as opposed as Apple's innovative
system architecture, or M$ as opposed to Adobe's approach. Adobe do an
excellent job in a thorough, I mean thoroughly testing all of angles of ongoing
gradual improvement or developing innovative technologies in many of Adobe
Systems products. So did with formerly Macromedia.

Somehow the competition seem to get smaller and smaller as time go, that is to
say Microsoft Corporation developed their own strange world of developing their
so-called standards web design apps and web servers and all that. Actually, M$
like to claim that theirs are best or better than others. We all know that
there were so many bug problems and products are not working so well as
intended or as claimed by high quality or best software applications as it was
suppose to be that way. M$ mess things around and they have many thousand of
programmers, lot of street smarties... worst of all, they failed to deliver
great products. We all know that M$ spent billions of dollars on marketing
budget, where not many small software companies do not have the budget to do
so. I meant no offense to be baised aganist Microsoft, but that is how it is. I
waste no time struggling with Windows applications, because I know what works
best with Macs for years. Macs work beautifully and wonderfully with graphic
design, web and photo for years.

Anyway, I really think and believe that Adobe Systems will probably be
borrowing some of FreeHand's innovative technolgies into Adobe illustrator.
But, let's say if Microsoft acquired Macromedia, I'd bet you that they are
going to f--- around and mess around with Flash, FreeHand, Dreamweaver and all
other products that Macromedia works so hard for years, and M$ pass it off,
shove things up and doesn't know what to do with it... as it should... and M$
executives leave the dirty job to marketing department to paint the pretty
pictures to offset the messy products, buggy problems... So if M$ did bought
Macromedia, I'd bet you, art101, that M$ put FreeHand aside and act nothing to
make it better or develop better. Mabye the could borrow some of FH technology
into MS product but eventually never bother to update or being more creative,
being more innovator to develop a better FreeHand product as time go.

Enuf babbling and I probably bore you already.

In other words, I really think and believe that Adobe will probably do a good
job with all of Macromedia technologies. Please understand and know that Adobe
System have many wonderful innovative technologies. Together, as a result of
merger of Adobe and formerly Macromedia, this led to solidify "new" Adobe
System to compete better and more effectively and productively aganist
Microsoft Corporation's socalled web design and graphic design apps in the
works or under development over there at M$.

Perhaps I suggest that you might want to test drive Adobe Illustrator and move
on. I am sorry that you like FreeHand so much and recognize that nothing seem
to make it better. Perhaps that you want to address some of issues with Adobe
Illustrator team with your feedback. Perhaps that you might be interested to be
Adobe Illustrator beta tester and make some goood, great suggestions to Adobe
Illustrator beta development and engineering team. I can assure you that they
will be very happy to have your valuable, positive insights about what works,
whatnot and what features you like to see that happen in Illustrator.

I am pretty sure that Illsutrator engineering team are well-aware of issues
around FreeHand technologies and things like that.

I hope that my suggestion be of an interest, an eye-opener and possible
opportunity for you to consider and look at different angles. I hope so.

All in all, I strongly encourage you and other die-hard FreeHanders should
make some valuable feedback and make good suggestions about whatever features
that you want to see it happen in Illustrator, as any with other applications
under development at Adobe System.

It is wonderful opportunity for you and other forum participants to
participate beta testing stage, because CS3 is currently under development and
currently undergone with beta testing stages. With that in mind, it is
enormous, important opportunity for all formerly Macromedia and longtime Adobe
customers/users to participate wonderful beta programs to make future releases
of creative products a better, high-quality applications.

I hope that you, art101, have an open-mind approach and take a different angle
and focus on bright future of Adobe products and how Adobe products enpowers or
help promote your creativity world of digital vector arts per se.

Finally, I hope that helps. For those who think and discover this discussion,
especially my suggestion or something I have said bore you.. I am sorry. I hope
this consider to be eye-opener for diehard FreeHand customers/users. Not only
just that with FreeHand, it also applies similar approach with all other
formerly Macromedia and Adobe products -- that evolves into CS3 products in
next release and future releases as well.

Your participation to this forum is important. Please try to understand that
this forum discussion is based on volunteer basis and often not monitored by
Adobe System personnel. It is designed specifically for user-to-user forum
participats helping other participants on same or similar common ground. Of
course, sometimes, out of the blue, there are some Adobe personnel participates
some forum discussion anywhere around Adobe Forums.
Navale
2006-12-20 17:08:16 UTC
Permalink
[q][i]Originally posted by: [b][b]Deaf Web Designer[/b][/b][/i]
...I believe that formerly Macromedia, prior to merger of Adobe and
Macromedia, recognized that FreeHand was a weak product, and reallocated their
resource or tool to focus more on Flash and Dreamweaver...[/q]

I think that it was rather the opposite, Freehand was a strong and fully
functional product that needed little or no development, while other more web
oriented applications needed a lot of attention.

What happened though was that when many users already have bought their copy
and was happy with that, they thought they had to add features to regain
interest for new sales. The result became FH MX which compared to FH7 or 8, has
just a bunch of annoying features that few if any FH users have asked for and
together with all the bugs makes it useless. Had they instead made FH7-8
compatible with OSX and finetuned features like PDF export, they would have
been winners for ever...

But as said before, in Classic mode we can continue to use FH7-8 until our
machines or ourselves are dead. No need for the awkward Adobe Illustrator in my
lifetime at least...
Deaf Web Designer
2006-12-20 19:08:11 UTC
Permalink
Navale,

All you have to do is give Adobe system engineers a through, constructive
feedback. if you are interested to participate Adobe Illustrator beta testing
program. If you chosen not to participate, but complain isn't going to help or
benefit the community of die-hard Freehand or Illustrator community and
customers/users either.

[q][i]Originally posted by: [b][b]Navale[/b][/b][/i]
[Q][I]Originally posted by: [B][B]Deaf Web Designer[/B][/B][/I]
...I believe that formerly Macromedia, prior to merger of Adobe and
Macromedia, recognized that FreeHand was a weak product, and reallocated their
resource or tool to focus more on Flash and Dreamweaver...[/Q]

I think that it was rather the opposite, Freehand was a strong and fully
functional product that needed little or no development, while other more web
oriented applications needed a lot of attention.

What happened though was that when many users already have bought their copy
and was happy with that, they thought they had to add features to regain
interest for new sales. The result became FH MX which compared to FH7 or 8, has
just a bunch of annoying features that few if any FH users have asked for and
together with all the bugs makes it useless. Had they instead made FH7-8
compatible with OSX and finetuned features like PDF export, they would have
been winners for ever...

But as said before, in Classic mode we can continue to use FH7-8 until our
machines or ourselves are dead. No need for the awkward Adobe Illustrator in my
lifetime at least...

[/q]
Navale
2006-12-20 20:09:33 UTC
Permalink
[q][i]Originally posted by: [b][b]Deaf Web Designer[/b][/b][/i]
Navale,

All you have to do is give Adobe system engineers a through, constructive
feedback. if you are interested to participate Adobe Illustrator beta testing
program. If you chosen not to participate, but complain isn't going to help or
benefit the community of die-hard Freehand or Illustrator community and
customers/users either.
[/q]

I have already approached Adobe with complaints and ideas on Freehand, but
with no reaction whatsoever. If I didn?t have a job to do, I could spend time
with Beta testing, but I have given up on Illustrator long ago and instead
continued with Freehand, which I have worked with since v.1 by Aldus. As an end
user I am happy if the program continues to work as it used to, regardless of
new OS or possible additions. To me Freehand was the transition from working on
a drawing board with pencils. Freehand was the perfect tool for me, Illustrator
was not and will not be until it is totally transformed to a Freehand 7 clone.
The only two additions I could use are transparents as in MX and curved
gradients. If I ever would like a more time consuming design program, I would
rather use Catia.
Deaf Web Designer
2006-12-20 21:02:33 UTC
Permalink
Navale,

I am sorry if you have trouble with Adobe with no response. It is not good.
Have you spoken to customer service about your concern?

I believe you that you have some constructive, productive ideas, and please do
not give up. I can try and dig and research further. But I cannot promise you
anything, really.

Curious, have you test-drive Illustrator? If so, when was the last time did
you used Illustrator and what version?

[q][i]Originally posted by: [b][b]Navale[/b][/b][/i]
[Q][I]Originally posted by: [B][B]Deaf Web Designer[/B][/B][/I]
Navale,

All you have to do is give Adobe system engineers a through, constructive
feedback. if you are interested to participate Adobe Illustrator beta testing
program. If you chosen not to participate, but complain isn't going to help or
benefit the community of die-hard Freehand or Illustrator community and
customers/users either.
[/Q]

I have already approached Adobe with complaints and ideas on Freehand, but
with no reaction whatsoever. If I didn?t have a job to do, I could spend time
with Beta testing, but I have given up on Illustrator long ago and instead
continued with Freehand, which I have worked with since v.1 by Aldus. As an end
user I am happy if the program continues to work as it used to, regardless of
new OS or possible additions. To me Freehand was the transition from working on
a drawing board with pencils. Freehand was the perfect tool for me, Illustrator
was not and will not be until it is totally transformed to a Freehand 7 clone.
The only two additions I could use are transparents as in MX and curved
gradients. If I ever would like a more time consuming design program, I would
rather use Catia.
[/q]
Navale
2006-12-20 22:35:50 UTC
Permalink
[q][i]Originally posted by: [b][b]Deaf Web Designer[/b][/b][/i]

Curious, have you test-drive Illustrator? If so, when was the last time did
you used Illustrator and what version?
[/q]

Long time ago now, I started with Illustrator 88 and upgraded for a couple of
years. But since I found Freehand being like a Porsche and Illustrator more
like a bicycle in speed and handling, I never looked back. From what I have
heard and learned from others, there is still a difference why I will continue
with my old Freehand until somebody tells me that AI should be superior.
(Remember that I consider MX a joke compared to the older FH versions...)

Thanks for your interest anyway, and Happy Holidays to you too!
Deaf Web Designer
2006-12-20 23:28:30 UTC
Permalink
What I really think that "MX" or "CS" are pretty much like fancy marketing
campagin done by formerly Macromedia and Adobe. It is really silly marketing
concept, really.

[q][i]Originally posted by: [b][b]Navale[/b][/b][/i]
(Remember that I consider MX a joke compared to the older FH versions...)

Thanks for your interest anyway, and Happy Holidays to you too![/q]
Rich Hudgins
2006-12-21 14:33:21 UTC
Permalink
DWD,

You seem to hint at the fact that you have direct access to Adobe in
some way. Or maybe you are just assuming that Adobe is welcoming
any/all with open arms and saying "please help us, give us ideas, we
want to make the best product possible given your feedback". In fact
Adobe (just like Macromedia) has been very secretive and closed with any
information regarding their future plans for anything. Not once since
the merger has an Adobe representative posted here to say "Hi" or "We
are listening". I can truthfully tell you that all Freehand users are
feeling confused and abandoned and have no way of knowing otherwise.

I am confused by your initial crude and rude posts and now seem to be
posting informed and even concerned replies. Exactly what is your
background and involvement in all of this?

Rich

Happy Holidays
Post by Deaf Web Designer
What I really think that "MX" or "CS" are pretty much like fancy marketing
campagin done by formerly Macromedia and Adobe. It is really silly marketing
concept, really.
[q][i]Originally posted by: [b][b]Navale[/b][/b][/i]
(Remember that I consider MX a joke compared to the older FH versions...)
Thanks for your interest anyway, and Happy Holidays to you too![/q]
davecc
2006-12-21 20:15:32 UTC
Permalink
Maybe there is hope for our beloved Freehand. I saw this post from an Adobe
employee on the CS3 Beta forums.


http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/webforums/forum/messageview.cfm?forumid=72&catid=62
6&threadid=1225321&enterthread=y

"David Howe
User is offline
Member
Posts: 147
Joined: 12/09/2006
12/21/2006 09:54:07 AM
Reply | Quote | Top | Bottom

Tiago, CS3 does install Adobe Caslon. Specifically we install:
ACaslonPro-Bold.otf
ACaslonPro-BoldItalic.otf
ACaslonPro-Italic.otf
ACaslonPro-Regular.otf
ACaslonPro-Semibold.otf
ACaslonPro-SemiboldItalic.otf

I'll forward the issue onto the Freehand team to see about making sure the
current version does not have this problem.
Adobe Photoshop QE
DJRichCT
2006-12-20 14:45:24 UTC
Permalink
Art101, you spoke for all us FreeHand users, many of us felt the same way you
did. Deaf Web Designer must not be a loyal FreeHand users...he's probably an
Illustrator user who's proud that his program "won". Wow, the victory he
has...a program that's way more complicated than it should be with numerous
features from FreeHand swept under the wrong. People like Deaf will probably
never understand the joy we had with FreeHand, from the multiple pages to the
cool Find & Replace palette. He doesn't have to fight for his program...he'll
probably never understand that feeling.

FreeHand is probably just the first of such casualties. We all know that Quark
will probably suffer a similar fate...and then who do we have left...ADOBE
software only.

Again, I thank Art101 for speaking out on the way we as a FreeHand community
feel. We all are fighting so hard for our program while people like Deaf Web
Designer and Adobe will never understand.
Deaf Web Designer
2006-12-20 15:03:16 UTC
Permalink
DJRichCT,

Well, in some aspect, you are wrong about me not being understand. I feel YOUR
pain. Please read my most recent response to art101.

To that end, I hope this help you to open your mind on next level about what
you want to do with FreeHand. Perhaps that you want to consider to participate
beta test and give your valuable feedback to Adobe software
developing/engineering team. With positive, constructive feedback from
customers like yourself do make a big difference.

I was like you, I was overly concerned about the merger of Adobe and
Macromedia at the time. At first, I vehemently and deeply opposed to the idea
of merger proposal by Adobe exeuctives to acquire Macromedia. As time go, as I
observed, I see the big picture, long-term mission on side of Adobe System...

If you have time to do so, please refer to my recent response to art101.

All in all, for those and others, like die-hard Freehand or any other products
that some of you love too much, you are encouraged to make fair, netural and
professional feedback based on your years of experience, profession and based
on your experience working with whatever application, give constructive,
positive feedback. Positive feedback includes negative and positive feedback on
whatever features associated with whatever applications you experience/work
with.

If you are interested to participate in one of those beta testing application,
you are encouraged to do so. I don't know if there is any FreeHand beta testing
in this stage, I am sorry to say that. But I am pretty sure that there is
probably Illustrator beta testers are needed. It is a GOOD time for you and
others to participate that NOW and for next couple of months before any of new,
better CS3 creative applications.

As far as beta test as concerned, I have participated in some of beta programs
in the past and these days. But I am NOT at my liberty to discuss or disclose
further information because of policy setforth by Adobe System.

But if you are interested to do so, you are encouraged to participate. The
more feedback from diehard Freehanders, the better... I would think it is
possible to see some of innovative technologies of FreeHand being incorporated
into Illustrator, only if you participate beta test stage and give excellent
advice, feedback on whatever feedback you give... THAT will help make a big
difference. So everyone benefit from that approach.

I hope this helps, no?

[q][i]Originally posted by: [b][b]DJRichCT[/b][/b][/i]
Art101, you spoke for all us FreeHand users, many of us felt the same way you
did. Deaf Web Designer must not be a loyal FreeHand user...he's probably an
Illustrator user who's proud that his program "won". Wow, the victory he
has...a program that's way more complicated than it should be with numerous
features from FreeHand swept under the rug. People like Deaf will probably
never understand the joy we had with FreeHand, from the multiple pages to the
cool Find & Replace palette. He doesn't have to fight for his program...he'll
probably never understand that feeling.

FreeHand is probably just the first of such casualties. We all know that Quark
will probably suffer a similar fate...and then who do we have left...ADOBE
software only.

Again, I thank Art101 for speaking out on the way we as a FreeHand community
feel. We all are fighting so hard for our program while people like Deaf Web
Designer and Adobe will never understand.[/q]
DJRichCT
2006-12-20 15:04:43 UTC
Permalink
Deaf Web Designer, My previous letter posted at the same time as yours, so i
didn't have the benefit of reading your letter first. I hope you are right that
FreeHand's better features will find their way into Illustrator or a new draw
program. But it is still a sad day when a user's favorite program for years is
ignored. I guess that's business.
John Gallagher
2006-12-20 16:04:27 UTC
Permalink
too many words guys, be more succinct!
Deaf Web Designer
2006-12-20 21:45:56 UTC
Permalink
For those who haven't look at Adobe Illustrator Design Center, I think it might
be of an interest for some of you.

Option A.
http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/designcenter/search.cfm?product=Illustrator&go=Go

Option B. Adobe Illustrator:
http://www.adobe.com/designcenter/illustrator/articles/illcs2ip_fhillmigr/illcs2
ip_fhillmigr.pdf

I don't know if that helps. I am sorry that some of you were having trouble
and having a bad time as time go with FreeHand. Do not give up. There is some
hope!

I will try and do some research about getting some contactbase around Adobe
software team... or possible third-party individuals who knows about
FreeHand/Illustrator. <sighs>

Happy Holidays,
DWD
Bembelembe
2006-12-21 09:12:17 UTC
Permalink
Deaf Web Designer,
could you please cut down the quantity of the quotes? Thanx.
And by the way, Adobe doesn't give a s*it about Freehand or it's users. None
of them ever responded to any of our countless questions and petitions. Like we
don't exist.
FH Addict
2006-12-22 08:12:01 UTC
Permalink
Things are becoming interesting, now we just have to contact M. David Howe.
Please tell us more David about the FreeHand Team !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
cricketbow
2007-01-01 18:34:26 UTC
Permalink
All I can hope is that FH is not entirely abandoned, but it is a slim hope.
However, I recently heard of a new vector app being introduced by Microsoft.
Well, actually, it is an old vector app called Expression, which pioneered
vector brush strokes before Illustrator. But Microsoft purchased it, along with
a couple other apps and are releasing it in 2007.
http://www.microsoft.com/products/expression
It may be worth checking out, even though it is Microsoft. ;)
It is based on software that functioned very well.

I have used Canvas, but I would say that previous versions were much better.
These last two versions have become slow and bloated, much like Illustrator.
I remember reading in other threads somewhere that Adobe was supposed to
release minor maintenance updates for both FH and Illustrator before the end of
the year. But I have seen nothing yet about it. I don't know where I read it,
but I know I did. Well, it's no surprise to me that they haven't anyway.
Armadillo
2007-01-02 12:03:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by cricketbow
vector brush strokes before Illustrator. But Microsoft purchased it, along with
a couple other apps and are releasing it in 2007.
http://www.microsoft.com/products/expression
It may be worth checking out, even though it is Microsoft. ;)
It is based on software that functioned very well.
I would rather see the number of graphic programs decreasing than increasing just because purchasing and upgrading them all is somewhat expensive. Soon my clients will want their files also as MS Expresion. ;(

I do not have too much to complain about MS products, except Word, but usability is often weak due to cluttered interface and difficult access and behavior of some features.

Jukka
Martin S.
2007-01-03 02:04:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by cricketbow
http://www.microsoft.com/products/expression
It may be worth checking out, even though it is Microsoft. ;)
It is based on software that functioned very well.
Can you name an application by MS that enjoys a good reputation amongst
graphic professionals?
--
Cheers Martin
Armadillo
2007-01-03 15:30:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martin S.
Post by cricketbow
It may be worth checking out, even though it is Microsoft. ;)
It is based on software that functioned very well.
Can you name an application by MS that enjoys a good reputation amongst
graphic professionals?
Flight Simulator?

Jukka
cricketbow
2007-01-04 00:32:39 UTC
Permalink
[q][i]Originally posted by: [b][b]Newsgroup User[/b][/b][/i]
In article <enbk7i$r6r$***@forums.macromedia.com>,

Can you name an application by MS that enjoys a good reputation amongst
graphic professionals?

[/q]

Well, since it wasn't actually [i]created[/i] by Microsoft, it may have a
chance.
:)
meitnik
2007-01-07 05:07:33 UTC
Permalink
Greetings fellow FH lovers,

I have a unique view on FH. I was lead tester for 3.0/3.1, tracked some 6k+
bugs. I too feel all your pain and mixed emotions. Over the decade I have read
and received emails about how many of you loved FH3. Thank you, thank you. It
means a lot to me, for you see I was never rewarded or acknowledged for my hard
work and long hours at Altsys. However, CEO Paul B. of Aldus did stop by my
office once and thanked me (but He was yanked away before we could actually
talk).
For all your pain, I have much more. Someday someone will want to write a book
and I would be glad to share it then. FH started dying after I realised some at
Altsys was no longer "lean and hungry" anymore. They made their millions and
all was left was turf wars at different levels.
As for testing, I learned politics has much to do about bugs as features. I
really want to help beta test whatever FH update comes about; but I will need
all of you to write to Adobe to plead on my behalf. You see, in the first round
of layoffs in '93, this one was secret, I was forced to sign a agreement not to
show my shadow at the door of Altsys or whoever got Altsys products. At this
point, perhaps I can once again become that killer tester. I need to know if
you all want me to do so; if so, write to Adobe.
My name is Andrew Meit, proud lead tester of FH 3.0/3.1. I am so glad so many
enjoyed that version. Bless you.

shalom, Andrew
art101
2007-01-08 11:54:24 UTC
Permalink
Good. My initial rant evolves into a thoughtful thread. Wouldn't it be weird if
somebody at Adobe gave this thread some attention? That could never happen
happen. Adobe is silent, bloated and self-absorbed.

Freehand was an amazing drawing tool (especially version 3.1). R.I.P.
Freehand.

Freehand was bought and killed by corporate greed and shortsighted stupidity.
In our fabulous new online cutthroat world, Adobe Illustrator rules. All hail
Illustrator.

Illustrator sucks. Everyone with a brain in their head has known this for
decades - but it doesn't matter anymore. Wanna make digital vector art? Buy
Adobe Illustrator. Obey Illustrator's nutbag interface. You are worthless. Obey
Adobe. You have no choice. You have no voice. If you found your craft with
Freehand, f*ck you. All hail Adobe. Adobe owns Freehand now. George Orwell
never imagined a future as awful as the future Adobe is selling you. Welcome to
the future of graphic design.

-----

"I don't recall any other program that consumers have fought for so hard as
they have done with FreeHand."

- DJRichCT

-----

"I'd prefer that Adobe acquire Macromedia, rather than Microsoft Corporation
acquire Macromedia..."

- Deaf Web Designer

Yeah, that might almost be a valid point, Deaf Web. Let's see. Microsoft or
Adobe? What a choice. Tweedle Dee or Tweedle Dum? It's so hard to decide.

-----

Hey there, Andrew (meitnik):

I don't remember you off the top of my head, but your name rings a bell. I bet
we talked on the phone way back when. Thanks for working Freehand back in the
olden days. It's no exaggeration to say that Freehand 3.0 changed my life. It
helped make art that paid the rent an opened my eyes. Imagine that.

I tested 4.0 shortly before everything went haywire. Nobody cared and nobody
listened. Everybody was busy working the buyout. Greed ruled. Art wasn't on the
table.

If you Google "Altsys" these days, the first hit is a Wikipedia page that
references James R and ignores Paul B - like Paul B was the ear that Van Gogh
chopped off.

Funny... how perfect. Long after we're all dead - as the planet heats up like
a toaster oven - some future civilization might dig us up and say, "Who
invented desktop publishing? Let's dig up something useful."
Rich Hudgins
2007-01-08 13:55:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by art101
If you Google "Altsys" these days, the first hit is a Wikipedia page that
references James R and ignores Paul B - like Paul B was the ear that Van Gogh
chopped off.
So do what Wikipedia is made to do and edit in Paul B. I have no idea
of any of that history so I can't very well do it.

Rich
Navale
2007-01-07 11:25:49 UTC
Permalink
Hi Andrew,

Thanks for participating and for your past efforts on Freehand.

Here is how I feel about the developments...

Freehand 1 was like flying a Cessna 152

Freehand 3 was like flying a Cessna Citation

Freehand 7 was like flying a Concorde

Freehand MX is like trying to get a submarine to fly....

Good luck all to get a new Freehand, working as we are used to!
FH Addict
2007-01-12 18:17:40 UTC
Permalink
David Howe replied me : "I can't say too much about the team unfortunately, but
it's not the biggest team or priority right now"
Thanks David for the reply, that's nice !!!
So there is a FreeHand team, even if it is a small one, there is a team ;-)
We are not alone anymore !!!!!
DJRichCT
2007-01-13 20:17:39 UTC
Permalink
FH Addict,

Thanks for letting us know that about the FreeHand team. I'm glad to know
there is one! It's not the biggest priority to Adobe right now, but as I've
said before, I think once CS3 is released, Adobe will then concentrate on what
they think are less important things like FreeHand. Maybe the maintenance
release is coming or better yet, how about ADOBE FREEHAND 12!
Bembelembe
2007-01-14 16:16:23 UTC
Permalink
Regarding this Howe statement - everything can be looked as glass half empty or
half full.
What constantly bothers me is silence from Adobe. If I'm part of the Freehand
team, I would create a new account, as some unknown user, and post some simple
mysterious news of optimism. How can someone read all of our user cries and
give us nothing? Can somebody be so cruel? That only gives me the thought that
new Freehand will never be born.
maxman23
2007-01-14 23:23:05 UTC
Permalink
"If I'm part of the Freehand team, I would create a new account, as some
unknown user, and post some simple mysterious news of optimism."

And if Adobe ever got wind that you had done so they could can your @ss for
having breached your term of contract for having disclosed inside company
information. So unless you're very foolish and actually want to lose your job,
you would keep very quiet indeed about how things are going with the enigmatic,
ever elusive "Freehand team."
DJRichCT
2007-01-14 23:23:47 UTC
Permalink
Bembelembe, while I totally understand what you mean about Adobe being
mysterious, Adobe certainly is not the only one. Check out this recent article
on Apple, and how they kept the iPhone a secret from the outside world. I think
Adobe does the same thing. Keep everyone in suspence. It's wrong that Adobe
does this since it keeps us FreeHand users guessing, but I'm not surprised.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/4461869.html
Rich Hudgins
2007-01-15 14:38:39 UTC
Permalink
And what exactly is the strategic importance of keeping the FH team
activities a secret? I really don't think that Corel, Deneba or
Microsoft really care if Adobe does anything with FH, only what they are
planning on doing with Illustrator. I also don't see why, if they were
going to incorporate FH features into Illustrator, they would have a FH
team. Maybe the FH team is strictly a team to dissect and salvage all
they can from FH to use in Illustrator?

Rich
Post by DJRichCT
Bembelembe, while I totally understand what you mean about Adobe being
mysterious, Adobe certainly is not the only one. Check out this recent article
on Apple, and how they kept the iPhone a secret from the outside world. I think
Adobe does the same thing. Keep everyone in suspence. It's wrong that Adobe
does this since it keeps us FreeHand users guessing, but I'm not surprised.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/4461869.html
cricketbow
2007-01-14 23:34:28 UTC
Permalink
Yes, while Adobe may not be responding about FH, at least they are not deleting
posts in this board about it (as far as I know). I posted some questions in the
Apple discussion boards about iWork and when they were going to add the
spreadsheet and database programs to finally make it a replacement for
Appleworks. My post was not ignored. It was DELETED.
I thought something may have happened to the thread (an error or whatever), so
I went back the next day and posted again and that was deleted as well.
Apparently Apple doesn't like people asking questions about any of their
products which lead to speculation in their boards.
Bembelembe
2007-01-15 07:27:50 UTC
Permalink
"And if Adobe ever got wind that you had done so they could can your @ss for
having breached your term of contract for having disclosed inside company
information."

Yes, you're quite right. Well, sometimes I simply go crazy without knowing
will I stay with my favourite app or should I ditch it after it gets too old to
use it.
Still, there is "IF Adobe ever got wind..." is not as same as "they wind up.."
;)
FH Addict
2007-01-15 16:27:26 UTC
Permalink
Maybe Adobe doesn't dare to say the team is composed of one person ;-)
maxman23
2007-01-15 17:30:10 UTC
Permalink
"And what exactly is the strategic importance of keeping the FH team
activities a secret? I really don't think that Corel, Deneba or
Microsoft really care if Adobe does anything with FH, only what they are
planning on doing with Illustrator."

It doesn't matter whether Adobe thinks competitors care or not. It's the
principle of the matter and I'm sure that's what they're considering here.
Corporate secrecy is corporate secrecy; when they get new employees to sign an
NDA as a condition of their employment they mean business. You pass on insider
information, you get fired or perhaps sued. It's pretty simple. Wondering what
Corel or Microsoft might do with FH-specific information is beside the point;
this is an internal matter only.

As for the FreeHand team, who knows what that is. Is it more than one person?
I don't know. Will Adobe release a new FH once CS3 is released, as has been
speculated here? I very much doubt it. Why even maintain a second, far lesser
tier of products, unless you are marketing them as some kind of entry-level
budget-priced suite for those customers who neither need nor can afford the
professional tier? Is there any evidence Adobe is about to do this? Are they
about to package Elements in with FH and some other stuff? What other products
would be a natural fit alongside FH, for that matter

Too many questions. But I certainly don't expect Adobe to enlighten us with
any clues.
maxman23
2007-01-15 17:30:27 UTC
Permalink
"And what exactly is the strategic importance of keeping the FH team
activities a secret? I really don't think that Corel, Deneba or
Microsoft really care if Adobe does anything with FH, only what they are
planning on doing with Illustrator."

It doesn't matter whether Adobe thinks competitors care or not. It's the
principle of the matter and I'm sure that's what they're considering here.
Corporate secrecy is corporate secrecy; when they get new employees to sign an
NDA as a condition of their employment they mean business. You pass on insider
information, you get fired or perhaps sued. It's pretty simple. Wondering what
Corel or Microsoft might do with FH-specific information is beside the point;
this is an internal matter only.

As for the FreeHand team, who knows what that is. Is it more than one person?
I don't know. Will Adobe release a new FH once CS3 is released, as has been
speculated here? I very much doubt it. Why even maintain a second, far lesser
tier of products, unless you are marketing them as some kind of entry-level
budget-priced suite for those customers who neither need nor can afford the
professional tier? Is there any evidence Adobe is about to do this? Are they
about to package Elements in with FH and some other stuff? What other products
would be a natural fit alongside FH, for that matter

Too many questions. But I certainly don't expect Adobe to enlighten us with
any clues.
IPWebster
2007-01-16 07:01:41 UTC
Permalink
I saw the future and it was cold. I turned to Illustrator CS, fooling myself,
snuffing out the fire that still burned for that FH version of long ago. I
tried to smile and tell myself I'd learn to love this awkward, ungainly beast
as I tried to make a simple selection, or breeze through a multi-paged document
on Illustrator's barren canvas. So many depravities later, on a stormy winter's
night, a flash of lightning, a glimpse of something, someone, out there in the
rain. It was Freehand. Cold and alone. But I hardened my heart and tried to
focus on the hooting and clanking bells and whistles of Illustrator.

Then the apocolypse. Adobe, the bearer of my second love Photoshop and its
beastly cousin, destroyed MM and absorbed the whithered corpse of Freehand.
Millions of good designers and illustrators cried that day. Some, like I had,
gave up on the past and looked towards the coming Nuclear Winter.

Not me. Not this time. I rose up and did a fresh install of MX. Wearing a torn
leather driving suit and a feather earring, I burn across the backroads of
digital design, souped up and spoiling for a fight. I ride the wastelands,
looking for fuel and whatever loose palettes can be had. My name's not
important, but my drawing program is. She's the last of the great Vector
illustration programs and for all her faults she's mine. And if they try to
handcuff me to a clipping mask, I will [i]Paste Them Inside[/i]!
Martin S.
2007-01-17 00:24:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by IPWebster
Not me. Not this time. I rose up and did a fresh install of MX. Wearing a torn
leather driving suit and a feather earring, I burn across the backroads of
digital design, souped up and spoiling for a fight. I ride the wastelands,
looking for fuel and whatever loose palettes can be had. My name's not
important, but my drawing program is. She's the last of the great Vector
illustration programs and for all her faults she's mine. And if they try to
handcuff me to a clipping mask, I will [i]Paste Them Inside[/i]!
This has got to be the post-of-the-year 2007!!!

Personally I'd rather be buried in a pet cemetery than using Illustrator!

:-)
--
Cheers Martin
meitnik
2007-01-17 01:51:18 UTC
Permalink
[q][i]Originally posted by: [b][b]Newsgroup User[/b][/b][/i]
And if they try to handcuff me to a clipping mask, I will [I]Paste Them
Inside[/I]!
[/q]
-- LOL, On my Andrew wall (I needed some kind of affiration after my being
trashed in '93) in my condo is the first printing/use of Paste-Inside of FH
3.0, as well as the first calligraphy pen use of 3.1 I did as lead tester. I
knew then how important a breakthrough they were. Others, I am not allowed to
name, had a hard time understanding my excitment for both breakthoughs. Some
allowed the callipen to wither away until Flash but then it became just another
tool, not what Expression had envisioned later on. I need to stop unless I will
just pour myself out...Again, thanks for loving 3.0!

shalom, Andrew
art101
2007-01-18 16:47:09 UTC
Permalink
Hey there, IPWebster. Goose bumps on my arms as I read what you said. No
kidding, the hair stood right up. You put words together very well... a rare
feat in this whacked world.

My original rant has become an interesting thread. I stop by now and then to
watch it evolve. I archive every post. Maybe someone will find it all useful
some day. FreeHand may die (All Hail Adobe), but it's good to know it won't go
silently into the long bleak corporate nightmare we all know so well.

Frankly, I'm amazed that nobody at Adobe has shut down this thread. I probably
shouldn't be amazed. After all, FreeHand users are clearly way under Adobe's
corporate radar.

I actually tried to buy something from Adobe yesterday. Yeah, yeah, I know,
doing business with the devil -- but the thing I wanted is unavailable anywhere
else (all hail Adobe's clever, money-grubbing monopoly). Anyway, I was on hold
for 37 minutes. I repeat: I was on hold for 37 minutes (while cell minutes and
my life ticked away), simply trying to give Adobe more of my money. I hung up.
I will never give Adobe another penny of my money. Not one more penny. Ever. I
draw the line, right here, right now.

Oops... I'm off-topic. Sorry.

I get lots of private email regarding this thread and the death of FreeHand. I
archive every byte. Maybe someone will find it all useful some day. Here's an
especially good example:

"I just read your rant from last month on the Adobe/FH forum. I'm completely
sympathetic. I just paid $250 to upgrade FH (from v. 8, from which there is no
official upgrade path, but some supervisor gave me a "deal"). I love it, I
prefer it over Illustrator (a gross understatement), and I admit to not
realizing how Adobe is letting FH die on the vine. I don't regret buying the
thing, I suspect I'll get a lot of use out of it on my new machine (considering
how long I used v. 8!). But it's sad, and discouraging, to see a venerable
program like FH fade ingloriously into the sunset.

"Like you, I started early -- w/ v. 1.0, actually. I was a beta tester for
quite some time, v's 3 through 5, or thereabouts. They seemed to value my input
as a designer, not an illustrator. Thought you might enjoy seeing one of my
first illustrations, a portrait of a friend, which I found on a floppy recently
and converted to PDF. [the writer attached a great illustration which I've
saved in my R.I.P. FreeHand archive]

"Insult to injury, I couldn't post a message to the Adobe forum. I'm using the
latest browser on the latest Mac OS, but NO-O-O.... Hence this note directly to
the source. Thanks for expressing what a few of us feel -- including that v.
3.1 was the BEST.... just as Word 5 was as spiffy as that app ever got...."

Amen, dude, amen. R.I.P. FreeHand. All hail Adobe.
meitnik
2007-02-11 12:45:29 UTC
Permalink
I have moved on. I have said my thoughts. I have found out key folks from
Freehand team are at Adobe, just can't tell who or where. I am pleased some the
talent and vision of Freehand folks walk halls of Adobe. Thats enough for me,
for now. I am at peace.
Btw, how many of you would be willling to help me upgrade to latest version of
FH as a thank you for my hard work on version 3, its only 100.00, but I live on
a very limited income due to my disabilities and so even that much is hard for
me. Please consider it. Thank you. :-)

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